Archeological Evidence of the Fortified Cities by the East Sea
This evidence is based on the Six Sea Model http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/alma-chapter-22-bom-map.html
I will be using the Hopewell mound fortifications found in New York State and Pennsylvania for archeological evidence for the fortifications described in Alma Chapter 50 and refortified in Alma Chapter 52. E.G Sqiuer and Charles Whitney described these fortifications before many of the sites were destroyed by farmers and settlers in the 18th and 19the century. First is a visual description of as described in the Book of Mormon and a comparison between Charles Whitney and E.G Squiers descriptions.
Moroni needs to prepare the Nephite territories from consistent attacks by the Lamanites. One area in particular needs particular attention that would be the east wilderness. Through the Niagra isthmus the Lamanites would have access to the Land Northward Bountiful and Jershon. Moroni (Alma Chapter 50) clears out the Lamanites from the east wilderness and has the Nephites occupy the land and build fortifications. Moroni (Alma Chapter 52) refortifies the area from attack.
These are the descriptions of the fortifications that the Nephites built
Concerning this line of fortifications Charles Whittlesey said: That they formed a well occupied line, constructed either to protect the advance of a nation landing from the lake (Lake Erie) and moving southward for conquest; or, a line of resistance for a people inhabiting these shores and pressed upon by their southern neighbors. (Quoted in R. Silverberg, Mound Builders of Ancient America, p. 116.)
E.G Sqier stated: System of Defenses extending from the sources of the Allegheny and Susquehanna in New York, diagonally across the country, through central and northern Ohio, to the Wabash. (Ancient Monuments, p. 44.)
Charles second description for the reasoning behind these fortifications matches the reasoning for Moroni to build these fortifications. The Lamanites attacked from the areas south of these fortifications or the lower part of New York state. Moroni secured the land northward and a second entry in the land Bountiful.
(Glenn Chapman helped in the compilation of sources)
Thank you for sharing your ideas, I appreciate your drive and passion in spreading your theories.
I’m not sure, but I’m worried that you’re experiencing what is known as “Confirmation Bias”. I also accept the fact that I may also be a victim of confirmation bias on the other end of the spectrum here, I think it’s worth looking deeper for more findings or artifacts in the area.
The way I see it, and I’m just trying to be honest here, is that Joseph used the area around him as inspiration for the setting of the Book of Mormon. Joseph knew the maps of this area very well and he had a very active imagination as a child and a fascination for the native people (according to his mother).
Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Who knows?
All I know is that there is more scientific evidence against the Book of Mormon (like DNA, or the lack of horses, chariots, steel, etc ) and anything “proving” it can easily be seen another way. We’ve all seen similar reports from South America or Central America, but it’s always the ruins of a wall or small building — something that can easily be seen as something else.
I can see how evidence lines up to show the consistency of the Book of Mormon, especially if you overlook certain information that would lead you to a different conclusion. Your first link on DNA: The blog admits the dates of the X2a’j marker are a problem, but then focus on shapes instead. The reality is that the X2a’j genetic marker, according to scientists much smarter than either of us, is between 14,000 and 20,200 years old. This is thousands of years before the time of Nephi, it’s even older than the earth (according to my seminary teacher). Also, mentioning it as the “5‑ton elephant in the room” reminds me of Ether 9:19 which says elephants were in North America at the time of Omer. Your second link on Hopewell: Again, the blog seems to leave out a few points in order to prove the theory true. The first point that you don’t quote from the article referenced is the word “meteoric”. In fact, an article linked in the report says, “These beads are made from meteoric iron, which is so pure it doesn’t need to be smelted.” and even, “There was no iron smelting in North America until around A.D. 1000, when Vikings brought the technology with them to the briefly occupied site of L’Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland. It didn’t catch on among the indigenous population and wasn’t reintroduced until after A.D. 1492. But just as in Egypt, iron artifacts are found at much earlier sites, and the explanation is the… Read more »
Hebrew cultural ties and native American x2a dna marker tells a different tale. Native American dna marker X2a is not found in Asia or Siberia its found in Iran. Cultural and dna evidence do not match up with current migration theories. These theories I think are still in its infancy. As more dna and cultural evidence presents itself I think only then will we get a better picture of how the Americas were populated. Hebrew cultural seen below all show a Hebrew link to native Americans Native American Jewish Hamsa symbol http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-jewish-hamsa-symbol.html Native American Hebrew Like temples http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-hebrew-like-temples.html Native American Hebrew like Temples http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-hebrew-language.html horses mammoths and bisons etc were in the continental usa to include Hopewell (Nephite) lands. You can find mammoth bones from Michigan to Arizona. Thomas Jefferson was told that mammoths still lived in the great lakes area. David Cusick was told by the Iroquois that a large animal attributed as a mammoth went through though village knocking down dwellings. Early settlers found elephant shaped indian smoke pipes. “The Naco Mammoth Kill Site is an archaeological site in southeast Arizona, near Naco, Arizona. The site was reported to the Arizona State Museum in September 1951 by Marc Navarrete, a local resident, after his father found two Clovis points in Greenbush Draw, while digging out the fossil bones of a mammoth. Emil Haury excavated the Naco mammoth site in April 1952. In only five days, Haury recovered the remains of a Columbian Mammoth that had been killed by the… Read more »
To further drive the point about DNA and the Book of Mormon: This is from Wikipedia: “Sub-group X2 appears to have undergone extensive population expansion and dispersal around or soon after the Last Glacial Maximum, about 21,000 years ago”. It seems like you’re jumping to conclusions about the cultural practices of a community of which you have almost no knowledge. Seeing common shapes or designs would require a massive leap in logic to reach your conclusions. Your first link doesn’t have any sources, but a Google Image search of the pictures returns the Moundville Archaeological Site. The Wikipedia page, which is backed up by scientific sources, does not mention Hebrew or Jewish connections in any way. Using this logic, one could say Hinduism and Occultism have Hebrew origins because the use of a Hexagram. Your second link jumps to similar conclusions. How many cultures have sacred buildings? I think it might be easier to count cultures that didn’t build sacred or religious buildings. Your third link can be seen as evidence that Joseph made the whole thing up by using phrases, names and locations from his surroundings. There’s no question that horses, mammoths and bison existed in the Americas at one point. We know this because of actual scientific evidence. What we also know because of this evidence is that the horses that were here became extinct thousands of years before the dates claimed in the Book of Mormon. I’d love to see your sources of elephant shaped smoke pipes, I couldn’t… Read more »
Jeff I have had this discussion before so I will just repost what I have already stated. DNA evidence is also causing problems for the Bering( Barren) Ice Bridge THEORY. It was first believed there was one migration 50000 thousand years ago. Then it changed to three migrations about 20000 thousand years ago and now scientist believe that haplo group x crossed (for which there is no evidence for) 13000 years ago. The reference you are using I extensively quote in the essay. You are right to say that Haplo group x is found in south Siberia or the Altain region of Siberia. The haplogroup x Altaian dna is the small yellow dot found in south Siberia on the Haplogroup x distribution map below It’s worth pointing out the Altaian Haplogroup x dna is not related to the Native American Haplogroup x found in North America and it arrived after the Bering ice bridge was not crossable. These quotes come from the same article you use as a reference. “Third, the few Altaian (Derenko et al. 2001) and Siberian haplogroup X lineages are not related to the Native American cluster, and they are more likely explained by recent gene flow from Europe or from West Asia.” “It is notable that X2 includes the two complete Native American X sequences that constitute the distinctive X2a clade, a clade that lacks close relatives in the entire Old World, including Siberia.” “Haplogroup X is an exception to this pattern of limited geographical distribution. It is found, generally… Read more »
The similar places names between the Book of Mormon is either evidence or what Joseph Smith could have used. But I do not think Joseph Smith was an Expert on Native American/Hopewell culture language artifacts and dna etc.
The Jewish hamsa symbol is not found in South America. Its found in Mayan Culture which the Hopewell most likely traded with and its found in North America.
If you go to this link you will see the section about elephants with its source.
Thank you for sharing your ideas, I appreciate your drive and passion in spreading your theories.
I’m not sure, but I’m worried that you’re experiencing what is known as “Confirmation Bias”. I also accept the fact that I may also be a victim of confirmation bias on the other end of the spectrum here, I think it’s worth looking deeper for more findings or artifacts in the area.
The way I see it, and I’m just trying to be honest here, is that Joseph used the area around him as inspiration for the setting of the Book of Mormon. Joseph knew the maps of this area very well and he had a very active imagination as a child and a fascination for the native people (according to his mother).
Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Who knows?
All I know is that there is more scientific evidence against the Book of Mormon (like DNA, or the lack of horses, chariots, steel, etc ) and anything “proving” it can easily be seen another way. We’ve all seen similar reports from South America or Central America, but it’s always the ruins of a wall or small building — something that can easily be seen as something else.
Here’s a similar article that, if viewed through the eyes of confirmation bias, can help prove the literal existence of the Lord of the Rings.
The way I see it the archeological dna cultural and artifact evidence is lining up to show consistency with the Book of Mormon
DNA
http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/best-book-of-mormon-dna-evidence-x2aj.html
Hopewell (iron axes)
http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/hopewell-meteoric-iron-axes-and-tools.html
Horses and chariots
http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/book-of-mormon-horses-chariots-highways.html
I can see how evidence lines up to show the consistency of the Book of Mormon, especially if you overlook certain information that would lead you to a different conclusion. Your first link on DNA: The blog admits the dates of the X2a’j marker are a problem, but then focus on shapes instead. The reality is that the X2a’j genetic marker, according to scientists much smarter than either of us, is between 14,000 and 20,200 years old. This is thousands of years before the time of Nephi, it’s even older than the earth (according to my seminary teacher). Also, mentioning it as the “5‑ton elephant in the room” reminds me of Ether 9:19 which says elephants were in North America at the time of Omer. Your second link on Hopewell: Again, the blog seems to leave out a few points in order to prove the theory true. The first point that you don’t quote from the article referenced is the word “meteoric”. In fact, an article linked in the report says, “These beads are made from meteoric iron, which is so pure it doesn’t need to be smelted.” and even, “There was no iron smelting in North America until around A.D. 1000, when Vikings brought the technology with them to the briefly occupied site of L’Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland. It didn’t catch on among the indigenous population and wasn’t reintroduced until after A.D. 1492. But just as in Egypt, iron artifacts are found at much earlier sites, and the explanation is the… Read more »
Hebrew cultural ties and native American x2a dna marker tells a different tale. Native American dna marker X2a is not found in Asia or Siberia its found in Iran. Cultural and dna evidence do not match up with current migration theories. These theories I think are still in its infancy. As more dna and cultural evidence presents itself I think only then will we get a better picture of how the Americas were populated. Hebrew cultural seen below all show a Hebrew link to native Americans Native American Jewish Hamsa symbol http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-jewish-hamsa-symbol.html Native American Hebrew Like temples http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-hebrew-like-temples.html Native American Hebrew like Temples http://bookofmormonevidence.blogspot.com/2016/09/native-american-hebrew-language.html horses mammoths and bisons etc were in the continental usa to include Hopewell (Nephite) lands. You can find mammoth bones from Michigan to Arizona. Thomas Jefferson was told that mammoths still lived in the great lakes area. David Cusick was told by the Iroquois that a large animal attributed as a mammoth went through though village knocking down dwellings. Early settlers found elephant shaped indian smoke pipes. “The Naco Mammoth Kill Site is an archaeological site in southeast Arizona, near Naco, Arizona. The site was reported to the Arizona State Museum in September 1951 by Marc Navarrete, a local resident, after his father found two Clovis points in Greenbush Draw, while digging out the fossil bones of a mammoth. Emil Haury excavated the Naco mammoth site in April 1952. In only five days, Haury recovered the remains of a Columbian Mammoth that had been killed by the… Read more »
To further drive the point about DNA and the Book of Mormon: This is from Wikipedia: “Sub-group X2 appears to have undergone extensive population expansion and dispersal around or soon after the Last Glacial Maximum, about 21,000 years ago”. It seems like you’re jumping to conclusions about the cultural practices of a community of which you have almost no knowledge. Seeing common shapes or designs would require a massive leap in logic to reach your conclusions. Your first link doesn’t have any sources, but a Google Image search of the pictures returns the Moundville Archaeological Site. The Wikipedia page, which is backed up by scientific sources, does not mention Hebrew or Jewish connections in any way. Using this logic, one could say Hinduism and Occultism have Hebrew origins because the use of a Hexagram. Your second link jumps to similar conclusions. How many cultures have sacred buildings? I think it might be easier to count cultures that didn’t build sacred or religious buildings. Your third link can be seen as evidence that Joseph made the whole thing up by using phrases, names and locations from his surroundings. There’s no question that horses, mammoths and bison existed in the Americas at one point. We know this because of actual scientific evidence. What we also know because of this evidence is that the horses that were here became extinct thousands of years before the dates claimed in the Book of Mormon. I’d love to see your sources of elephant shaped smoke pipes, I couldn’t… Read more »
Jeff I have had this discussion before so I will just repost what I have already stated. DNA evidence is also causing problems for the Bering( Barren) Ice Bridge THEORY. It was first believed there was one migration 50000 thousand years ago. Then it changed to three migrations about 20000 thousand years ago and now scientist believe that haplo group x crossed (for which there is no evidence for) 13000 years ago. The reference you are using I extensively quote in the essay. You are right to say that Haplo group x is found in south Siberia or the Altain region of Siberia. The haplogroup x Altaian dna is the small yellow dot found in south Siberia on the Haplogroup x distribution map below It’s worth pointing out the Altaian Haplogroup x dna is not related to the Native American Haplogroup x found in North America and it arrived after the Bering ice bridge was not crossable. These quotes come from the same article you use as a reference. “Third, the few Altaian (Derenko et al. 2001) and Siberian haplogroup X lineages are not related to the Native American cluster, and they are more likely explained by recent gene flow from Europe or from West Asia.” “It is notable that X2 includes the two complete Native American X sequences that constitute the distinctive X2a clade, a clade that lacks close relatives in the entire Old World, including Siberia.” “Haplogroup X is an exception to this pattern of limited geographical distribution. It is found, generally… Read more »
The similar places names between the Book of Mormon is either evidence or what Joseph Smith could have used. But I do not think Joseph Smith was an Expert on Native American/Hopewell culture language artifacts and dna etc.
The Jewish hamsa symbol is not found in South America. Its found in Mayan Culture which the Hopewell most likely traded with and its found in North America.
If you go to this link you will see the section about elephants with its source.
https://mormonbandwagon.com/dave/tribe-manasseh‑3/
Iran? Doesn’t that sound familiar? 70 years captive in babylon: Iran? Come on.…..