Carson, I am not raised in the Church but rather I am a “convert”. In deciding, through much prayer and reading, I decided to be Baptized fully aware that I might not have all of my questions answered and not expecting the fullness of the gospel until sometime in the afterlife… I, vicariously, know you as your brother had dated my daughter, Lindsay Baugh, many years ago. I would hate for her to be led astray when she is so bright (IQ of 145) and can study and handle conflicting information just fine. I have three children and by the grace of Jesus Christ, all three of them have strong testimonies. Two of them have convert spouses. I believe they have made the decision, with an adult mind, to be baptized. I accepted the LDS teachings knowing that much was yet to be revealed. I have admitted to my Bishop(s) that I do not usually wear my garments without fear. It has never been a problem except that it is something that I need to work on. I’ve been to MANY Churches seeking the right one for me. Many were hypocritical, or (as the Catholic religion), too symbolic on an every week basis. Many Churches had Sunday members whose congregations did not practice what is taught any day but Sunday.
Part of my acceptance of the LDS Church was the realization that I can’t know everything in this life and I don’t expect to. The church has evolved and expect that it will continue to do so. This will not turn me away. I believe in the core principles and don’t allow the “little stuff” to bother me. Being quite bright myself, I would be very irritated if someone tried to hand feed me discrepancies and contradiction. I don’t have a hang-up with them myself. I feel very sad for you, Marisa, and your families because you could have just quit going rather than becoming an apostate and trying to take other people with you.
God Bless you, Marisa, and your family. God loves you all very much. I hope that I haven’t offended you.
Susan, I don’t know you or Carson and this is not a comment to either of you on a personal level, only my reaction to your words. Despite your mean spirited post to Carson you may typically be a kind and gracious person — I don’t know. In general, I find it condescending and judgmental when someone tells someone else they feel sad for them when that person is not experiencing anything that makes them sad. It is disingenuous. The person receiving that message is unlikely to feel you really care about them. It is not the same as offering empathy to someone who is struggling or going thru a difficult time. Furthermore, referring to Carson’s concerns about the church as the “little stuff” is belittling, not loving or respectful. I see nothing compassionate or Christlike in your message to Carson and his family, only condemnation. I am certain the church teaches us that only God may judge a person.
Also, perhaps a public forum was not your best venue if you are concerned your daughter discovers your behavior.
You just admitted to believing things that arent taught by the church. Go tell your bishop that and see how he responds…
Mike
8 years ago
Being raised in the church, serving a mission, holding stake callings, and seeing all the church handbooks have confirmed my testimony. That testimony being, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is as true as any other church on earth. They are all make believe. Best decision I’ve made in my life…abandon fictional characters and live for today. I’m a better husband and father because of it.
Sampson Avard
8 years ago
Little stuff? Like 38 year old Joe Smith marrying a 14 year old girl by promising her and her family eternal salvation? Hebephilia and acclesiastic grooming are not little things.
Marisa Calderwood
8 years ago
Susan, I’m trying to pin down why I feel bothered by your comment and I think one reason is that you said you “feel very sad” about the way we left the church. It seems like you feel more frustrated or angry because you’re saying we’re doing something bad. We see some of the teachings of the church as harmful and therefore cannot have clear consciences if we don’t tell others. Information was hidden and much was lied about. Because of this there are many bright, knowledgeable members of the church such as yourself (and myself of 2–3 years ago) who still believe the church is true, not because they are stupid or easily fooled, but because they have been lied to and that’s not their fault. But it would be my fault if I discovered the lie and didn’t say anything. You say you accept the core principles — I still believe in all of those, such as love, compassion, honesty, integrity, kindness, a search for knowledge and truth and charity toward others. But I can believe in all of those things without believing in the LDS church, or even God. You say you don’t allow little stuff to bother you — if by little stuff you mean the stance against LGBT then say that to a gay teenager. They can’t just look past the “little stuff.” Those of us in a privileged situation need to see how psychologically harmful many of the beliefs and practices of the LDS church… Read more »
Sister Baugh, I’m glad we can have this virtual online discussion as it serves as a great way to clear up some common misconceptions that you and others have about us and some information you lack about the church. This reply is more hastily written than I’d like. First off, I remember Lindsay very well. She was such an intelligent, beautiful and fun person. I really wanted things to work out with her and my brother because I wanted her to be a part of our family so much. Also, I remember very well my brother talking so highly of you guys after his trip to Washington. So, with those memories I am assuming you are a kind and wonderful person that just hasn’t received the correct information about our story or the common confirmation biases that come up when cognitive dissonance rears its ugly head have kept you from understanding fully what we now know. I’ll try to explain those better here and look forward to discussing this further with you if you so desire. You start off by mentioning that you were baptized despite not having all the answers to your questions. I assume, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that you are suggesting my disaffection from the church came because I didn’t get certain questions answered. Its actually exactly the opposite, I had some very clear and undeniable answers to questions. Answers that I can’t unknow now and answers that many choose to ignore and not learn.… Read more »
Carson, I write you back with love and respect (if Lindsay knew I wrote anything, she would have aa fit!). I was not raised in church so was never indoctrinated in any way. By about 16, I just “knew” something else was there that I was missing. I went to Young Life and learned about Christ and God and the Holy Ghost in a very non-specific church way. I wanted to know more. I say this in a very “humble” way as I knew that I knew very little and someone answered the blog assuming that I was quite arrogant and judgmental. I had read your and Marisa’s story many months ago and just never fully forgot it. I guess I finally felt compelled to write my story but that did not seem to have been received well. It seems as I either did not express myself well or gave some people the wrong impression. In actuality, within the context of the Church, I kind of believe what “I” believe and I’ve never been spoon fed. Some of what I believe probably does not fit in with strict Mormon Doctrine but I have never felt guilty of this. I have to follow my beliefs as I feel them. I would mostly identify myself as Christian but with the LDS Church as having the best programs for family unity and for the chance to be reunited again choose it. I came to this conclusion by attending, maybe, 10 different churches over about 6 years. When I say I… Read more »
Hello Susan. I don’t know you or Carson. I am also just an invisible person on the internet that you will never meet in real life, so I wouldn’t blame you for stopping reading this right now. But for some reason I feel compelled to share my testimony with you. I would hope that you may some day be able to have a humble heart and see the world through other peoples eyes and truly try to understand their burdens and not just “feel sorry” for them for the choices they have made. Through your comments, you indirectly imply that the issues with the church are “little stuff” and why would anyone every leave over little things when there so much good. I would ask if you could have a humble heart for just one moment and consider, that maybe they view these issues as major and directly related to the church’s truth claims and not just “little stuff”? I am not asking you to agree that they are big deals. But just ask if you have the capacity of humility to acknowledge that they might view them as such? Do you have this ability? As for me I have had many personal spiritual experiences with the Book of Mormon. So I have a spiritual witness of it. But I take my faith seriously. When the church teaches that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, I want to know what that means. Because of my study, I also have an intellectual testimony that the… Read more »
Susan,
I don’t know you or Carson and this is not a comment to either of you on a personal level, only my reaction to your words. Despite your mean spirited post to Carson you may typically be a kind and gracious person — I don’t know. In general, I find it condescending and judgmental when someone tells someone else they feel sad for them when that person is not experiencing anything that makes them sad. It is disingenuous. The person receiving that message is unlikely to feel you really care about them. It is not the same as offering empathy to someone who is struggling or going thru a difficult time. Furthermore, referring to Carson’s concerns about the church as the “little stuff” is belittling, not loving or respectful. I see nothing compassionate or Christlike in your message to Carson and his family, only condemnation. I am certain the church teaches us that only God may judge a person.
Also, perhaps a public forum was not your best venue if you are concerned your daughter discovers your behavior.
Susan,
You just admitted to believing things that arent taught by the church. Go tell your bishop that and see how he responds…
Being raised in the church, serving a mission, holding stake callings, and seeing all the church handbooks have confirmed my testimony. That testimony being, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is as true as any other church on earth. They are all make believe. Best decision I’ve made in my life…abandon fictional characters and live for today. I’m a better husband and father because of it.
Little stuff? Like 38 year old Joe Smith marrying a 14 year old girl by promising her and her family eternal salvation? Hebephilia and acclesiastic grooming are not little things.
Susan, I’m trying to pin down why I feel bothered by your comment and I think one reason is that you said you “feel very sad” about the way we left the church. It seems like you feel more frustrated or angry because you’re saying we’re doing something bad. We see some of the teachings of the church as harmful and therefore cannot have clear consciences if we don’t tell others. Information was hidden and much was lied about. Because of this there are many bright, knowledgeable members of the church such as yourself (and myself of 2–3 years ago) who still believe the church is true, not because they are stupid or easily fooled, but because they have been lied to and that’s not their fault. But it would be my fault if I discovered the lie and didn’t say anything. You say you accept the core principles — I still believe in all of those, such as love, compassion, honesty, integrity, kindness, a search for knowledge and truth and charity toward others. But I can believe in all of those things without believing in the LDS church, or even God. You say you don’t allow little stuff to bother you — if by little stuff you mean the stance against LGBT then say that to a gay teenager. They can’t just look past the “little stuff.” Those of us in a privileged situation need to see how psychologically harmful many of the beliefs and practices of the LDS church… Read more »
Sister Baugh, I’m glad we can have this virtual online discussion as it serves as a great way to clear up some common misconceptions that you and others have about us and some information you lack about the church. This reply is more hastily written than I’d like. First off, I remember Lindsay very well. She was such an intelligent, beautiful and fun person. I really wanted things to work out with her and my brother because I wanted her to be a part of our family so much. Also, I remember very well my brother talking so highly of you guys after his trip to Washington. So, with those memories I am assuming you are a kind and wonderful person that just hasn’t received the correct information about our story or the common confirmation biases that come up when cognitive dissonance rears its ugly head have kept you from understanding fully what we now know. I’ll try to explain those better here and look forward to discussing this further with you if you so desire. You start off by mentioning that you were baptized despite not having all the answers to your questions. I assume, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that you are suggesting my disaffection from the church came because I didn’t get certain questions answered. Its actually exactly the opposite, I had some very clear and undeniable answers to questions. Answers that I can’t unknow now and answers that many choose to ignore and not learn.… Read more »
Carson, I write you back with love and respect (if Lindsay knew I wrote anything, she would have aa fit!). I was not raised in church so was never indoctrinated in any way. By about 16, I just “knew” something else was there that I was missing. I went to Young Life and learned about Christ and God and the Holy Ghost in a very non-specific church way. I wanted to know more. I say this in a very “humble” way as I knew that I knew very little and someone answered the blog assuming that I was quite arrogant and judgmental. I had read your and Marisa’s story many months ago and just never fully forgot it. I guess I finally felt compelled to write my story but that did not seem to have been received well. It seems as I either did not express myself well or gave some people the wrong impression. In actuality, within the context of the Church, I kind of believe what “I” believe and I’ve never been spoon fed. Some of what I believe probably does not fit in with strict Mormon Doctrine but I have never felt guilty of this. I have to follow my beliefs as I feel them. I would mostly identify myself as Christian but with the LDS Church as having the best programs for family unity and for the chance to be reunited again choose it. I came to this conclusion by attending, maybe, 10 different churches over about 6 years. When I say I… Read more »
Hello Susan. I don’t know you or Carson. I am also just an invisible person on the internet that you will never meet in real life, so I wouldn’t blame you for stopping reading this right now. But for some reason I feel compelled to share my testimony with you. I would hope that you may some day be able to have a humble heart and see the world through other peoples eyes and truly try to understand their burdens and not just “feel sorry” for them for the choices they have made. Through your comments, you indirectly imply that the issues with the church are “little stuff” and why would anyone every leave over little things when there so much good. I would ask if you could have a humble heart for just one moment and consider, that maybe they view these issues as major and directly related to the church’s truth claims and not just “little stuff”? I am not asking you to agree that they are big deals. But just ask if you have the capacity of humility to acknowledge that they might view them as such? Do you have this ability? As for me I have had many personal spiritual experiences with the Book of Mormon. So I have a spiritual witness of it. But I take my faith seriously. When the church teaches that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, I want to know what that means. Because of my study, I also have an intellectual testimony that the… Read more »